Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bullshit

Normally I wouldn’t bother to rise to the defense of SEO considing the excellent job Danny and Greg have done of that in the past couple weeks but considering my livelyhood has been called “bullshit” by Calacanis and “stupid easy” by Shoemoney I feel I must take exception. Let’s start by putting all SEO detractors and nay-sayers On Notice:


Ok now that we have that taken care of let’s talk about the 95% of SEO that is useless, stupid easy, bullshit or whatever else you want to call it.

I propose this list as the useless and easy SEO tactics:

  • Title Tags
  • Meta Description Tags
  • Meta Keyword Tags
  • ALT Tags
  • H1, H2, H3 (and accompanying CSS)
  • Keywords in the content
  • Internal Links (images vs. text (keyword rich))

I propose this list as the 5% of useful and more difficult tasks:

  • URL Structure (the fixing thereof)
  • Advanced Linking
  • Appropriate Cloaking (er…IP Delivery)
  • Dynamic Template Modification
  • Analytics (I mean useful measurable numbers)
  • Client Management (agency life)

First of all I agree that most of SEO is easy but let me qualify that statement. It’s easy for me. It’s easy for Shoemoney. It’s easy for WebGuerrilla and it may be easy for you. Keep in mind we live in a fish bowl and SEO/M is our lives. We live and breath it and have for possibly years and years. It’s become second nature to create unique, keyword rich Title tags and design a web template with H1’s, text navigation and proper ALT tags. It’s what we do and we should be able to do it with our eyes closed and get it right the first time. To say that it’s stupid easy is simply arrogant.

It still shocks me to be on a call with a client or a potential client and to talk about the 95% and get that “wow” reaction. 99% of the online world does not know what we do and more importantly does not know what we know. To them it’s rocket science and when we show them results in a month they happily pay their bill and get back to doing what they do best – which, quite often, feels like rocket science to me though I’m sure they think it’s easy.

Let’s talk about how overrated these tactics are. From

o·ver·rate – Pronunciation[oh-ver-reyt] –verb (used with object), -rat·ed, -rat·ing. to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate: I think you overrate their political influence.

I keep thinking of the Princess Bride and how Vizzini keeps saying “Inconceivable!” and then Inigo Montoya says “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means”. If these tactics were overrated I simply wouldn’t have the extremely happy clients I have today. The vast majority of the SEO I do in the agency world is not the aggressive, envelope pushing 5% of SEO tactics. It’s the 95% of the fundamental shtuff that simply hasn’t been done. Overrated? Hell no. Try another word if you like but overrated is not an apt descriptor.

We do a fair bit of SEO at Range and we recently have a great success story that involved online revenue moving from 6 figures a year to 7 figures a year (and I don’t mean from 9M to 10M). Most of that campaign was the fundamentals that weren’t in place prior to our involvements. We fixed Titles and Metas, URLs, ALTs, internal linking and did some external linking work. We also rewrote thousands of pages of content. Go ask the CMO what we did and you may hear terms like rocket science and magic and to that CMO it is rocket science with a huge payoff in revenue.

Danny said it best:

Yes, you can invest time to learn these “simple” things. But if you know nothing about them, they can see like rocket science. Over the years, I’ve talked with plenty of people who weren’t even aware of the basic tip that every page should have a unique, descriptive title tag. They think “title” means the biggest text on the page, not the HTML title tag. Talk of HTML title tags — that IS rocket science to them.

Calacanis – I don’t want to leave you out cuz I heard you speak in Chicago and you crack me up. SEO is bullshit eh? I love that you said it in front of a bunch of SEOs. I was drinking coffee and it nearly came out my nose. Here’s what you said over on Shoe’s blog:

Honestly, I don’t think of tagging as a big deal… certainly not SEO. I think that is the issue… many folks consider the very simple website design stuff SEO, and many of those same folks think of SEO as the blackhat stuff.

If SEO means tagging your posts, designing a clean page, and making great content then I’m guilty of loving SEO.

However, to me SEO is the link farm, gaming, and blackhat stuff. That stuff is short term and a waste of time. You build a great site with great content and you win… that’s the bottom line. The money you would pay to an SEO firm to do the blackhat stuff is better off spent making better, more helpful content.

Hey, but the hell do I know… 🙂

You illustrate clearly what is a large part of the problem: semantics and perception. Tagging – just because it wasn’t invented in the SEO world doesn’t mean it’s not SEO. Tagging is so totally an SEO tool it’s not even funny. The rest of what you said is basically a wrong percpetion of what SEO is or is not but a great site with great content DOES NOT always win…that’s the bottom line.

What the hell do you know? A fair bit about a lot of things I’d imagine. What do you know about SEO? Very little that I can see from the way you talk about it. But so what? Do what you do and we’ll do what we do. The only thing I remember from my years at business school is what one professor said one day “Stick to your core competancy and hire the right people to do the rest.”

Back in Calgary I had a great mechanic that did all the work on my 300zx. He was the lead mechanic for a national RallySport racing team as well. What that man could do under the hood of a car was amazing. Everytime I’d get some work done he’d walk me through what had taken place. It always seemed like rocket science to me. I’d nod my head and agree and totally pretend I knew exactly what he was talking about. Occassionally I’d ask a question and he’s say “It’s really quite simple…” and I’d go back to nodding and agreeing. He and his mechanic buddies probably sit around and can’t believe that people don’t know how to change their oil or swap a flat tire. Does that make changing the oil and swapping a flat tire overrated? stupid easy? Hey Dave and Kevin – should we just change our oil in the car once and call that good enough?

I do SEO and I do it better than most. I hire my mechanic, my lawyers and my accountants to do my rocket science for me. Visit this site right here


  1. Hey Oilman!

    When is it SEO?
    When we say it is!
    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” — Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
    It doesn’t help to say ‘its not SEO’, does it?

    My rule of thumb for ‘when is it web design and when is it SEO?’ is:
    SEO affects a third party, typically a search engine bot.
    Web design, and its cousins like IA, usability and accessability, affect the user.
    There is a fair bit of overlap, but there’s usually some clearness in your mind as to just who you are expecting to effect with whatever change you are implementing at any given time…

  2. Good job Oilman! I am happy you stood up for the SEO industry! The truth is that most websites key for success is SEO. My entire statement on my blog (I could not find the trackback here ;-))

  3. *yawn*

    hasn’t this been covered just a whole buncha times for like years

    is the seo industry so fragile they have to constantly defend their work? if it’s workin’ for ya rock on. don’t worry about defining shit and squabbling over skill levels.

    which is basically what you’re saying here i think. sorry – guess i just had to restate it in my own words 🙂

  4. Playing an instrument is simple easy if you’ve been doing it for years.

    Playing tennis is simple easy for the top players.

    Golf is simple easy for someone like Tiger.

    Flying an airplane is simple easy for experienced pilots.

    SEO is simple easy for those of us that do it every day. But for those outside of the industry, it’s amazing stuff. Just the simple changes can make a HUGE difference to a site that hasn’t had headings and decent page titles. Easy for us, yes. But so is a 100 yard chip shot into the cup for Tiger.

  5. Right on Todd. This post is one that I will reference often. Great effin job describing what it’s like to work in our industry. So many people bitch about it, and so few really know how to do it (even sometimes within our industry)

    All I know is that I have made a handful of people multimillionaires from this “bullshit” and I aint doing so bad myself 🙂 There’s gotta be something to that!

  6. Hey its cool…

    Good Job Oilman! But one thing is true that it depends upon your site.

    If you want SERP and PAGE RANK and other then do a bit all those Optimizations.

    If your target is visitors then don’t see all on page optimization. Get a smart URL and work on it with good content. Crazy Mind

  7. Round 2 goes to the Oilman. Well put.

  8. I suppose even writing appeared magic to those that didn’t know how to read. 🙂

    Me, I’m still struggling with html. 😉

  9. “I hire my mechanic, my lawyers and my accountants to do my rocket science for me.”

    That’s the crux, IMO – SEO is a speciality, because people dedicated their working lives to specialising in it.

    Not sure Shoemoney made specific derogatory comments about SEO, though – on the most recent show he seemed to “just not get it”, but this is a guy who already does a lot of things second nature that plenty of others scratch their heads over, and appears to be extremely successful because of it. Maybe if he partnered with Jill Whalen for those Adsense sites… 😉

  10. Phantombookman says:

    an excellent post and all absolutely correct, of course.

    Anything done well tends to look easy – I remember watching a professional downhill skier in Switzerland once.
    I personally had never been on skis but my initial thought was, that looks easy enough!

    Without wishing to insult Shoemoney, I cannot take his point seriously. Not because it may not be legitimate but because I don’t know whether he believes it or not, is it link-bait or a genuine discussion?

    This is the danger of people always link-baiting you lose credibility – a high price to pay for a few links.

  11. very eloquently put

  12. jimbeetle says:

    I like to see it as the folks that think “95% of SEO is useless” as keeping 95% of us useless SEOs working.

  13. Great post and very true.

    The link to needs a little fix

  14. I thought SEO was stupid easy until I tried teaching my co-workers how to do it, to lighten my work load. Then I realized it was so easy to me becuase it’s what I’ve been doing for the last 8 or so years (corporate bitch here too Todd.)

    Try to teach someone that understands it, to the point they can handle a client call from pre contract to months after the signed contract, and you’ll see just how difficult the rest of the world sees it.

    You’re on the money man, first round is on me at SES NY!!

  15. Great post Todd! I find it funny how so many arrogant people call SEO bullshit when they have never worked for an SEO company or done the simple things on a large scale basis for many clients. Its all a matter of perspective, which the haters don’t have.

  16. I had to weigh-in on this. I’m one of those who feels passionately about this exact subject as some of you know by now. lol

    The question of is SEO easy or not really depends on the particular site that needs help. If the site is butt ugly and needs a complete and total dump in the garbage can, then the answer might be “no”, it is not so easy.

    If the site can be helped with some basic knowledge or consulting, or the SEO can create some good content or change a few tags, etc, then yes; for that SEO who knows what they are doing it is VERY easy.

    But is SEO easy in general terms? HELL no. As Todd states; the average joeOwner has NO CLUE at all and his/her eyes glaze over the second you start talking about a title tag, etc. It’s not easy to them and it’s not easy to “most” people in the world, including some so-called SEO’s out there right now. lol

    I “loved” Greg’s take on this debate, and now I love Todd’s take on the debate as well. I felt a stronge urge to post as such. 🙂 Kudos to you!

  17. I have read your blog, I have read DaveN, Jim, Graywolf, Greg, Shoe, Eli, Andy, Marcin, Quad, Jamie blogs and a few others. No one said what SEO is.

    So I will tell you what SEO is:
    SEO is Search Engine Optimization, aka the process to optimize a search engine. It only happens at Google (don’t dare to say that Yahoo and Live are optimized) and it is painful (hear the cryings on the webmaster fora).

    BTW, working on an engine absolutely requires a mechanic.

  18. Damn. 😛

  19. Damn. (/me hands Todd a beer and removes the can opener he just used for the whoop ass from his hands.) 😛

  20. SEO is for kids…send me some hits ;-p

  21. There are several things at play here. Yes SEO is easy for somebody that knows how to use a computer and make a simple web page and knows the difference between page.html and page.php or knows what a title tag is and how to change it. Most people don’t. SEO is rocket science to them. So is hooking up their stereo or using their cell phone for anything other than making and receiveing calls.

    The other thing I run into is that web designers hate seo’s. They think what we have to say is stupid. They make a living creating beautiful artistic flash websites. Most corperations have some guy executive in charge that knows nothing about how to create a good website. They use the same rules they use for TV and magazine ads.

    Personally I hope Todds success with that company does not get out. If the big companies ever got on the ball it would be very hard to rank for anything. There is no reason why apple itunes should not be at least in top 5 for every song title they sell. Imagine the boost in sales they would get just by doing a little seo. There are a zillion examples like this.

  22. This universal, those who know the tricks and tips find it easy and the remaining who are not able to understand find it to be rocket science.That’s how it works everywhere and in every field.

  23. Thank you for this post. My thoughts exactly. Keep your heads up all you hard working SEOs.

  24. I felt the need to expand on this reoccuring argument. The white vs black thing is driving me crazy.

  25. Nicely put! It’s nice to hear someone beong vocal in support of the industry, since recently it seems to be more ‘chique’ for people to rail on the industry.

    I normally reserve a lot of respect for guys like ShoeMoney, after all they’re out there doing what we all want to do – making websites make money. But when I hear people running on about how easy it is and how its ridiculous that people spend money for it, I’m always remember my car.

    I was a mechanic for years (in a former life 🙂 ) and I learned quite a bit about automobiles from general maintenance to engine rebuilds, from simple ‘no-starts’ to complex diagnostic ightmares and when you get right down to it – its all really simple, nothing to it – it all boils down to a few basics – righty tighty lefty loosey, ignition fuel compression=combusion, volts/amps/resistance, weight vs HP & torque…

    All simple easy to understand concepts. Many people still don’t waste their time working for hours repairing their cars when there is a trustworthy, qualified expert to entrust the cars care to.

    The fact is many people choose to let a mechanic do even the mundane maintenance they could easyily handle themselves.

    People can only stretch themselves so thin, companies too. Allocating interanl resources to learn, plan, stratagize and implement SEO practices and then maintain through-out industry changes = a lot of effort = a lot of resource expenditure.

    There is no doubt that many company’s CEOs, regional mangers and even office clerks could give their fleet vehicles a good tune-up and oil change themselves – why don’t they..? It’s not the best use of their resources.

    Reliable, qualified, trustworthy SEO professionals are a good investment for many companies, and don’t deserve to be berated for providing a viable service that brings value to their clients, and helps clients make the most of their resources.

    My $0.02 …and then some

  26. Having been involved in this industry for, probably, as long as my old buddy Oilman, it’s too easy to forget that most folks don’t know what you’ve learnt.

    Also, it’s not simply a question of what you know, it’s how you use the knowledge. That can be one of the key factors, and can be where the real skill and experience comes in.

    I’m with Oilman on this.

  27. Eagle to Dog discussion:

    Eagle: Hey Dog! Flying and soaring in the air is stupid easy!
    Dog: Huh? Well, have you tried to bark?

    Ok, I’m sure you got my point! SEO is stupid easy and perhaps even bullshit to those who know SEO but it’s tough to the unlearned.

    Well said Oilman.

  28. At first I thought SEO was hard. (I had no idea) Then started learning and thought SEO was easy. (Learning from work doing SEO for Doctors, Dentist and Lawyers) Then I found out it was really hard. (Because I learned I really do not know a lot after listening to you guys, the SEO Gods) Then I started thinking it was easy. (‘Cause I learned a lot from the SEO community) Then I realized it was hard. (After finding a hard time winning SEO contest) Then I am finding it easy again. (Since I am leading in SEO contest)

    But easy or hard… I have been doing this for quite some time already. And has run several successful SEO campaigns for my clients, and yet when someone asks me… Are you an expert in SEO? I always say: “I may know a lot and some people may call me an expert but I never considered myself one. But if you are interested in my services, I can help you sell online.” I just do not feel like calling myself an expert since I believe there is just still so much to learn. And I believe that there is not a single SEO guy that knows everything about SEO. And this is where SEO communities are beneficial to learning more.

  29. This is a “cornerstone” post. Well said. Well executed. Nice link bait pic too.

    Now if only you can EXPAND more on that 5% SEO bit. That would might result in me having more than just shoe money.

    Thanks Oilman.

  30. Well said Oilman.

    SEO is one of those things that you only get by dedicating a lot of time and effort in learning it and understanding it. The 95% part may seem easy but even that takes skill to execute effectively.

    Now let’s hear some more on that 5% 🙂

  31. Here, here Todd!

    I could go on forever about how SEO is so not “Stupid Easy”.

    Let’s just say, and I quote Shrek, that quality, high level, and ethical white hat SEO – like an Ogre – “…has many layers.”

    Let’s look at one little aspect of SEO – keyword research. We’ve been told for years that if you fail in identifying and optimizing your client’s website for the right keywords and the rest of your SEO efforts may be in vein.

    Yet, still to this very day, you know how many times I’ve seen companies spending $5K to $50K per month optimizing their ass off all to rank on the wrong keyword phrases. Phrases the client themselves came up with or that the SEM firm they used picked out of the sky!!

    Yay!!! They’re ranking #1 in Google for a phase that has 5 million competing sites, which for some reason they think means people are searching for that phrase, when in actuality it’s only being searched 2 times per day. Yet the same words in that very phrase just rearranged would bring that same client 36 potential leads per day.

    The client spends all this $$ to rank at the top of the SERPS on phrases that no one is even looking for and say “Well shit this SEO stuff doesn’t work where’s my ROI I’m ranking on Google?”.

    How does this help the industry? And that’s the bigger picture here.

    There’s an art in doing something right to the highest level possible and then there’s just the “me too” mentality that I see forming in this industry. SEM companies old and new are just flipping over the same rocks everyone else does and claim, and possibly even think, that all their SEO work is done cause it’s what everyone else is doing.

    And, in that respect, maybe it is a little stupid easy. To them I say “Stop doing just the easy stuff stupid”, because you’ll soon find that your clients will be catching up to the SEO 101 stuff and see little value add you are bringing to the table.

    Those SEM’s swimming against the stream and challenging the “best practices” of SEO – if you can dare to say there is such a thing – is what will earn them the better clients and a real livelihood and longevity in this industry.

    Just the element of proper in depth keyword research which includes analyzing 20,000 to 100,000 phrases to identify the best converting keywords worth even ranking on is far from “Stupid Easy”.

    If my company, Epiar, qualifies with the Canadian Revenue Agency to receive R&D tax credits because of the “Science and Innovation” behind the SEO data mining and analysis applications that we have built over the last 6 years I wouldn’t call that stupid easy. The last thing the government of Canada would tell you is that they are giving out free money to do R&D on stupid easy stuff. Let me tell you the hoops you have to jump through and in depth process to qualify for those credits, while stupid, is far from easy.

    As I said, I could go on forever and actually did “…but that will do donkey.”

  32. i’m pretty much in agreement with your post.

  33. nah! it’s easy. don’t listen to oil, folks. just go back to your flash designer and tell him it’s ok to go with that splash page intro. in fact, make it extra big. se’s like the big ones a lot better –you’ll rank higher real soon, i promise.

  34. Oilman,

    Great read. I have to agree with you on this one. Just so everyone knows I have started doing SEO in 2002 and did it professionally starting in 2003. He is right about 95% being easy for an SEO but here is the kicker: NO ONE PUTS TIME IN TOO EVEN GET CLOSE TO 95%. Man I wish I could have even one client that was close so I could just do the FUN 5%. Usually this is how it goes:

    Problems with Clients Site:
    -URLs all Fucked UP – Check
    -Huge Database with no way to edit any Meta – Check
    -Reluctant to Spend Money on Good Content – Check
    -Hired Shitty SEO Firm that no only did nothing but made the company not trust any more SEO – Check
    -Sup Links in Google – Check
    -Non existent Inbound Linking – Check

    Are we seeing a trend? It doesnt matter if SEO is overrated or if too many people are in the game. The honest truth is that there is “not” enough quality SEO out there and of the one that are left most don’t take on alot of new clients if they are really good. Personally I can count on two hands the clients I worked for last year. Real SEO starts with a person who is passionate about “search” and “learning”. If you dont have those basics and the patience to test and re-test then check the logs you should just hire a professional. Ok now I will step off my soapbox.


  35. Ballsout says:

    Ah SEO. An ‘industry’ adopted by failed Web designers and developers alike. Sorry folks, it is bulls**t. I’m not saying that it’s utterly useless. In fact, it’s very useful. But stop taking yourselves so seriously. SEO is a niche area of the web design/development mix – the school janitor if you like. The school couldn’t function without you but you do a remedial job and nobody really respects your position a whole lot. Which is why, I assume, you constantly feel the need to defend yourself. Every 65 billion of you that have crawled out of the wordwork to claim your stake in this industry. Most of you should go away and work in another in another field. The web has enough cowboys already.

  36. I have two things to say here! First off, IMHO SEO can suck my balls.

    Secondly, companies can optimize their asses off by hiring these so-called “professional SEO’s” (for those who do not know who these jack-asses are: the fools who throw buzz words at poor folks who get easily impressed by the jargon) the point is, when everyone other company is SEOing, how in the world will they expect to be on the top 10 even.

    My advise to companies: design your webpages properly with the right set of standards, and throw that damn SEO fool out of the window, all he is doing is making money for doing absolutly NOTHING. yes thats right all you SEO’s, you guys dont do jack ass….dum asses googling all day for “research”….SEO is the biggest crap ever invented in the history of mankind.

    And the fact the SEO is more like a pyramid scam. Once everyone knows the true nature and currupt nature of SEOing, by then you so-called SEO Gods would have made so much money that you would be siting on a beach resort with no need to work for the rest of your lives. SEO’s should be name tagged and be injected with RFID tag so that they cant ever be trusted again.

    Just my two cents 🙂

  37. Here i am again! But this wont be an SEO bash!

    I just think its unfair for the company paying for SEO. Lets suppose Company A gets company xyz to make them a website. Now i do not oppose to the techniques required to SEO, what i do oppse is the “SEO” term it self. These are the things the developers / designer of the website are supposed to DO. If company xyz charges then $1000 for the website, SEO’s would probably monopolize and charge pretty much the same amount. And all they would be doing is inserting some key words and doing a bit of research and all that crap that should have been done by the developers.

    SEO isnt rocket science. Its done by those people who are not that bright and cannot do the real technical side of DEVELOPMENT, but are good at talking and making a lot of noise. The poor developer is the read mind behind the website. Any developer can do research and infact the developer will know a zillion ways to do research a zillion times better then the SEO GOD.

    This is an appeal to the web community. SEO is nothing but a load of bull. Get your developers or the company from where you are getting your webside from to do it FOR you. It should come as part of the package deal or whatever. Who knows more about your company then you do. Would you let some outside personal to influence you and to teach you on how to do what YOU better? crap! You know what you want, get your marketing guyz to do the research for the appropriate SEOing, do IN-HOUSE SEOing.

  38. Oilman, Nice review. I really like to know more about SEO. Human conversations are great, you never know where they will turn. One thing is for sure, the more you get involved with a conversation in the start, the less risk you’ll have over time. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

  39. HAHA!, I like the part when calacanis says:

    “However, to me SEO is the link farm, gaming, and blackhat stuff. That stuff is short term and a waste of time.”

    He has no clue what SEO is. I can’t believe SEO’s went to to a conference to hear him speak.

    Good Call out Oilman

  40. Well said Oilman, I’m pretty much agree with you that SEO is not always easy

  41. I think Shoe was making a point that most SEOs are the kind of people who stuff title tags, not real SEOs but fakers or scammers.

  42. LOL, i find the post title hilarious!

  43. I work on a team in which I am the only male. I have to be carefull of what I say because someone may get their feelings hurt or file sexual harrassment, I have to hear the constant male bashing, and their is always some bullshit gossip going around. I understand that this is how females behave but how do I maintain my cool without blowing my top?

  44. Well said Oilman, I’m pretty much agree with you that SEO is not always easy

  45. Some SEO is simple, some is more complex, I don't think you can detract from a whole skill because some part of it can be quickly learned.

  46. I agree to Dal
    I have too started working as SEO in late 2000 and its hard to devote time to get to the 95% mark it takes the bullshit from you
    This seems to be a trend development

  47. Well done. A website without SEO is sure to be lost.


  1. […] The war between SEO gurus and PPC advertisers is still on! Famous SEO Oilman defended in his blog the SEO industry against recent negative statements from various sources. I am more than happy that he stood up and explained SEO to the “outside world”.   […]

  2. […] Although Oilman does not post very often, its posts like these that keep his blog in my feed list. […]

  3. […] And then, once you know how to explain this in easy terms, go read Oilman’s post, “Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bullshit“. You’ll get an SEO opinion straight from someone who actually makes a living from this science bullshit. […]

  4. Skrentablog says:

    Appropriate Discoverability…

    95% of SEO is getting the basics right: title, meta, h1 h2, link anchor text, sane url structure, and so forth. That stuff still matters and it’s amazing how so many businesses with tons of content don’t do it. I……

  5. […] That debate is happening again. […]

  6. […] Danny has come down on the IS side, defending SEO — as have the highly respected Greg Boser and Todd Friesen. There are others who disagree. […]

  7. […] Posted on January 11th, 2007» Filed under google, php, html, seo, search engines, sql» No comments digg_url = ‘URLOFSTORY’; Reading this blog here from oilman got me thinking about SEOand how people value their worth in terms of what they charge for their services and how some of what he is saying about others and their denigrating what we do can impact upon us negatively. […]

  8. […] Oilman vs. Shoemoney smackdown- duking it out over blackhat/whitehat and SEO BS. […]

  9. […] It’s the battle of the old-school SEO versus the no-school SEO. In one corner, Todd,  the Oilman, Friesen, the king of the blackhat thing, squaring off against Jeremy, Shoemoney, Shoemaker, the king of the ring…  tone. […]

  10. […] In a related topic Oilman goes further and talks about why SEO is not “bullshit” and “stupid easy”. […]

  11. […] Todd Freisen continues the defence of SEO as a valid and important specialist service for businesses, underlining the points Danny Sullivan made previously that just because a specialist finds their specialist skills easy, doesn’t mean to say everyone else does. […]

  12. […] Did a quick survey of SEO professionals in the Philippines. So is SEO stupid easy? I’m with Oilman on that 🙂 From Jozzua: I think most of the basic SEO stuff is really easy. Stupid Easy? Probably. One can easily get links through directories, free articles submissions and forum posts (with signatures). It’s the linkbait part that i think is much harder because you have to be creative. One has to find out what can get people to talk about one’s site and that’s like making an TV Ad. It can be boring, not worthing talking about or really very good. […]

  13. […] A Debate Raged Apparently not everyone agreed with Dave, pleased read Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bullshit. Dave’s partner Kevin Lee provides some additional analysis. It’s not that simple proclaims David Wallace. There’s a timeline of a majority of the discussion, or you can use Technorati to find more juicy bits. […]

  14. […] Todd Friesen: Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bulls–t […]

  15. […] The post reminded me of Oilmans post on the whole SEO is overated yawnfest. […]

  16. SEMMYS says:

    […] Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bullshit Todd Friesen, Oilman | 1/10/07 […]

  17. […] Shoemoney, A Fish Bowl, and Bullshit Todd Friesen, Oilman | 1/10/07 […]

  18. […] I was reading through some SEO-related articles earlier tonight, I ran across a post by Todd Friesen of that covers an issue I have never really thought about before. Although I have never considered […]